If you’re planning on Thailand being your home indefinitely, then of course, yeah, Thai based provider is the way you need to go. An idea about the insurance programs that are available to you so you can protect your assets and protect your health. The issue is, with a lot of the public hospitals, is that the hospitals don’t have relationships in place with insurance companies.
If you’re trying to avoid being taxed domiciled in Thailand by Thai based insurers, you know, the biggest risk to your wealth is your health. Welcome, Darren. Thank you, Mark. Nice to be here. And Darren and I have been working together personally. You’ve helped place our insurance policies for the last four years.
Yeah. Correct. And have done so successfully for many of our clients. Yeah. Thank you. So, Darren, how long have you been in the insurance business in Thailand? Um, since 2014. I started working for Aetna. Here in Bangkok. So I was there for a year and a half until mid 2015 when I decided I wanted to, to set up my own business, which is when we started, uh, seek to ensure.
And so seek to ensure has been around 10 years now. Congratulations. Yeah, we started, yeah, we started, our kind of first business year was 2016, so 2015 was when we kind of set up, but yeah, it was January, 2016. So we’re almost, almost at that point, you know, in a nine year mark. So. Excellent. Yeah. That’s, that’s an accomplishment.
So let’s. Just back up a second for folks that may be coming from the United States, where it’s a combination of public and private, employer based insurance and private, and also from folks coming from kind of single payer public systems like the UK. In Thailand, there’s both a public and private healthcare system.
Can you describe that briefly for our listeners? Yeah, so, I mean, generally speaking, expats will use the private system, so, in Bangkok, for example, has some of the best international hospitals, arguably, in the region, in the world, you know, it’s got a thriving medical tourism hub, so, people come here to specifically use, you know, Bumrungrad, Tsim Sha Tsui, Bangkok Hospital, so, that’s the private sector, in terms of the public sector, again, Bangkok has some, you know, really good public hospitals, so, Chulalongkorn, for example, is a, is an example of a really good hospital.
So, generally speaking, local people will use the, the public hospitals, which is predominantly paid for by the government. Or, you know, you can access at a much cheaper rate than if you’re going to the private hospitals. Got it. And some of these major hospitals that you mentioned, I go to B& H. It’s just where I’ve happened to go over the years.
If you’re in Phuket or Chiang Mai, they also have branches in those areas, in the major metropolitan areas. Sure, sure. So, I mean, there’s a network called BDMS. Bangkok Deusit Medical Services. They have hospitals throughout Thailand. So, Chiang Mai. So, I mean, that’s just one example of a network of, there are other networks as well.
That’s the main one. So yeah, wherever you are as an expat in Thailand, you can access international standard medical care. Great. So let’s say I place a policy through you. Does that just cover the private healthcare system or does it cover both? It can cover both. The issue is, with a lot of the public hospitals, is that the hospitals don’t have relationships in place with insurance companies.
So, if you want to use a public hospital, you’re free to do that from the insurer’s perspective, um, but you’ll need to pay in and submit a claim to your insurer afterwards. Whereas with the private system, they will have like an insurance office, typically within the hospital. So they’ll have staff who are familiar with dealing with insurance companies.
So, depending on the insurance you’re using, you can use it on a direct basis. So, they will basically take your card when you go into the hospital. And then we deal with the insurer. And I can tell you at B& H, when you go downstairs to pay, right, there’s the cashiers, but there’s also a person dedicated to insurance claims right there, and it’s, the private hospitals here make it very easy.
Yeah, yeah, they do. It’s a major source of business for them. I would imagine. And by the way, once you help somebody place a policy, do you also assist them with claims on the back end? Yeah. Yeah, we assist with claims. And so, I mean, I like to kind of have a, Personal relationship with my clients in that everyone has my whatsapp so, you know if there are any kind of issues which crop up which sometimes they do people can contact me directly and But I mean in practice my take on this is if if the insurer is doing their job properly I shouldn’t need to get involved But sometimes there are issues which crop up and then I can get involved to help kind of facilitate things.
Yeah. Well, thank you So do you work with? Do you work with a certain subset of insurers here, or do you work with kind of all the insurers in Thailand? Yeah, good question. And we don’t work with everybody. We focus on working with the providers who are set up to deal with expats. So when I say that, so I mean in terms of the level of cover which their plans are offering.
So we focus on adequate coverage, because the last thing I want to do is to have somebody come to me and say, Darren, we didn’t have enough cover. Yeah. It’s really important to me that people are adequately covered. So the market. It has a lot of options where people aren’t adequately covered, so we want to avoid that.
So that’s the first thing. Having documentation in English is really important. Yes. Because, again, there are providers out there who don’t have documentation in English. So, you know, for expats, that’s a problem. So we steer clear of those guys. Ability to service expats. So that means, again, kind of the whole kind of English language predominantly.
You know, people who can, if you do call their customer service number, that you can speak to someone in English is a crucial aspect. Got it. And I’ve had a policy with Pacific Cross and I’ve found them to be easy to deal with. What are the other top insurers here that people might hear about? Yeah, so we work predominantly with April, April Thailand, AXA, Pacific Cross, Luma, Allions, and also LMG.
Oh, so lots of choices. Yeah, yeah, yeah. We like to, yeah, kind of have a broad range of plans to offer people to make sure that what we’re providing them is meeting their requirements. Right. So, you deal with lots of folks from all over the world coming from all kinds of different healthcare systems with all kinds of different insurance paradigms.
What are the top three questions, let’s say, that you get asked all the time? Yeah. Okay. So a common question which we get, especially from, from fellow Brits, because we have a healthcare system back home is, I don’t need insurance. Can I just go home? When I get sick, that’s a really common question we get to which I say, well, you know, there are a whole load of health issues where you won’t be allowed to get on that plane.
So you need to think about what you’re going to do from an insurance perspective to get you into a situation where you can get on the plane and that can be very expensive. I think that’s a great point. I’ve got Medicare and a Medicare gap policy in the U. S. So I’m completely covered. I have a great doctor at Cedars Sinai in Los Angeles.
But it’s the motorbike accident or the car accident or sudden, you know, sort of health issue that comes up and kind of But you know, getting on an airplane across the Pacific just isn’t practical, and you just couldn’t do it. They wouldn’t allow you on the plane. Right. So, yeah, so that’s a common, that’s a really common question which comes up.
Another question which comes up and we’ll kind of talk about that a bit more later is will pre existing conditions be covered? Yeah. Because again, that varies from, you know, some countries, they, you know, they mandate that they need to cover pre existing conditions. In Thailand, there is no such mandate.
Right. So. Generally speaking, pre existing conditions won’t be covered, although, as we’ll talk about later, there are some options in the market which can help you if you do have pre existing conditions. Great. Yeah, I found that to be the case, and, you know, if I need to address any of those issues, obviously I’m going to need to go back to the States and use my insurance there.
And then finally, another question that people often ask is, you know, will I be covered if I go back to my home country? So, it will depend on an insurer to insurer basis and the details of the policy. But generally speaking, if you were just going back for a holiday, then most providers will have some out of, out of area, out of Thailand coverage.
In terms of if you’re moving back to your home country permanently, that changes things because A lot of the plans here in Thailand are dependent on you being an expat, i. e. living outside of your country, main country of nationality. In that case, you would likely need to cancel the policy you had here and set up a new one in your home country.
Makes sense. So, in terms of the insurance market here, I know you and I have talked about what I would prefer and I wanted a higher Deductible? Yeah. But higher coverage policy, just in case I get in that car accident. Are there a wide variety of policies here, and how would you kind of describe those generally speaking?
Yeah, there are. There’s, there’s lots of different options in the market. Even, I mean, some providers, for example, they’ll have lots of different options in terms of levels of cover, flexibility. So you mentioned there are things like deductibles, co pays. In terms of classifying policies, generally. I would say there are, there are three groups.
So the first type is what we call like the visa facilitation plans. So that’s just to tick the boxes of, you know, for immigration when you’re applying for a visa. LTR or XM or something like that. Yeah, precisely. And they each have differing kind of levels of insurance that they require, which, you know, you guys are familiar with where those numbers come from.
I’m not sure, but there are plans out there which will. So typically, you’ll make those requirements quite cost effectively. Whether or not that, those plans give you adequate coverage is another question, but they will get you your visa, they’ll, tick the boxes. And then the second group, what I would call low end plans.
So these are plans which have low levels of coverage, so typically under five million Thai Bahts. worth of coverage per year or per illness and then finally we have like comprehensive coverage which I would class as over 10 million bars worth of cover which will leave you kind of adequately covered in the event of worst case scenarios so serious accident serious illness you’ve got a good level of cover there.
And, you know, you should see for, so just generally speaking, and I appreciate this is very general, just to give people an idea, let’s say a 55 year old male who’s just retired here looking for that comprehensive policy. Generally, what are the price ranges in maybe U. S. dollars or Thai baht I could expect?
Yeah, I mean, it’s because it’s a difficult question because there are so many, so many, sorry. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But I mean, The general kind of rule of thumb I, I, I’ve always used and it kind of, kind of works is if you look at your age times 1, 000 Baht. Okay. That would get you a, a reasonable policy. I like that.
So if you’re 55, 55, 000 Baht per year. I mean, obviously there’s, there’s so many different factors to come to an accurate amount. And I mean, if you said to me that I want to have, You know, order bells and whistles, I want to have outpatient coverage, I want to have wellness coverage, dental, it’s going to cost a lot more, but if you’re looking for a solid plan which is going to, you know, leave you adequately protected, you’re looking around that mark.
Okay. And when people are paying for their policies, is that an annual one time slug or can they do it monthly? It depends on the provider. I would say Prepare for an annual payment, because that is predominantly what most of the, most of the insurers, they need. Um, although there are some providers, like Pacific Cross being one of them, who will do biannual payment.
So you’ll pay 50 percent at the front end, 50 percent in six months time. So they can do that, but predominantly it’s an annual payment. So, do some hospitals prefer certain carriers over others? Yeah, I think the best way of looking at that is whether the insurer is an international insurer or a Thai based insurer.
So I think just by the fact that we’re here in Thailand, I think they prefer to deal with Thai based insurers because they can deal, you know, with, with the Thai staff, the, you know, between the insurance companies and the hospitals. So I would say that, yeah, they prefer to deal with the Thai based insurers as opposed to dealing with the international insurers.
And that’s for, you know, also because of time zones as well, it’s much easier to deal with. With an insurance company here in Thailand. So if somebody’s thinking about becoming an expat here, I mean, I’m hearing from you, I don’t want to put words in your mouth, but, but, better to buy the policy here through a Thai based insurer.
Then try to secure something overseas or an international insurer that might be able to provide a certificate of coverage for Thailand Just because the claims process would probably it sounds like that would be easier Yeah, I mean predominantly if you’re planning on Thailand being your home indefinitely Then of course your Thai based provider is the way you need to go The only time that international coverage can be useful is if you’re let’s say for example You’re only going to be here for three or four years and you know that in three or four years time You’re going to move to another country Then there is a kind of benefit in terms of using international coverage because then you can keep that policy active when you move to a new country.
Whereas if you’re using a Thai based provider, you need to be resident here for at least six months of the year. So if you can’t, you know, if, if, if you move to, let’s say you move to Vietnam, then with a Thai based plan, you’d need to cancel the plan and then start a new plan in Vietnam. And that can create issues if you’ve developed any health conditions during there.
That’s a great tip because a lot of people are concerned about being taxed domiciled here, which would require you living here for more than 180 days. So what I’m hearing is if you’re not, if, if you’re trying to avoid being taxed domiciled in Thailand, a Thai based insurer isn’t probably going to work for you.
Um, possibly not. Okay, good. Are all policies here annual? It’s a year to year basis, or can you get further extended coverage? Yeah, they’re an annual contract, but the way that it works is once you’re on policy, then, I mean, all insurers will have an age cutoff in terms of them saying that after 65 or after 70, we won’t take any, any new applicants.
But once you’re, if you can obviously get in before that cutoff, once you’re on policy. They will guarantee renewal of the policy. So, I mean, having said that, there are some lower end plans which will have an age cut off, where they’ll say, like, we’ll cut you off when you reach 90 or something like that.
But predominantly, the plans that I work with, with the adequate level of coverage, they don’t have those cut offs. They’ll guarantee renewability of the plan. That’s a great tip. So if I come here in my let’s say early 60s. Yeah, good to get that locked in and purchased Yeah, so that as I get into my late 60s 70s and beyond Yeah, as long as I keep renewing I’m gonna have an opportunity with a good plan sure to maintain insurance Yeah, I mean my advice on that for anybody is to Get kind of an insurance policy in place as soon as you can because a lot of people say, well, you know I’m still healthy.
I don’t need to worry about it The problem is is that when you get to a point where you’re no longer healthy and you if you haven’t got anything in place It’s too late, right because you can’t just then go to an insurer and say hey, you know I’ve just developed diabetes Cover me because they won’t cover you you need to have that policy in place Before you get the diabetes in order for you to have ongoing coverage for that condition.
It’s just one example good point and Generally speaking, again, another unfair question, but what would be a cutoff point if I’m 72, 75, 80, at what point, and I’m purchasing my, trying to purchase my first policy here in the kingdom, would that be? Practically very difficult to do. Again, it’s a difficult question because there are solutions.
Even if you are 80, there are solutions out there for people. You know, so like I said, there are some insurers who, who don’t have a cutoff. It creates different issues. So something, you know, with age in terms of a barrier, one of them is price. So the older you get, the more expensive insurance gets. It’s unavoidable because From an insurer’s perspective, the older you get, the more of a risk you have.
Risk, right, yeah. You know, if you are hospitalized in your 80s, it’s going to cost the insurance company a lot of money. So they pass that on to people in terms of the premium at the front end. Right. So that is a, that’s a barrier. Obviously as well, the older you get, statistically speaking, you’re more likely to develop conditions.
Right. You know, people in their 80s, they’re likely to have, if they are accepted on this coverage, they’re going to have exclusions on their pre existing conditions. So that’s something to bear in mind as well. So again, it kind of ties back into the advice that it’s prudent to, to get a health insurance policy in place as soon as you can to protect you long term.
Excellent. If somebody is interested And it sounds like this is available to folks to tailoring a policy for what they want or what they’re maybe used to having or based upon their perception of risk. How do you, how do you work with folks like that? So from my perspective, and this is how I work with all of my clients, I like to understand people’s requirements.
So some people, you know, they approach me through my website and they’ll say, look, we only want to deal via email. And I’m, you know, we can work on that basis, but where I develop the best relationships in understanding people is by speaking to people, right? So whether that’s a meeting or whether we set up a video call or have a, have a chat on the phone.
And that’s what I kind of class as a, as a fact find. So that’s me asking you questions, getting to understand what you need. What kind of policy you need, because everybody’s different, everybody has different kind of backgrounds in terms of their health, in terms of their future, in terms of where they want to be.
So I need to factor that all in in terms of Going away and then coming back and saying, well, you know, I think you should look at this, this policy. And the only way I can do a good, good job on that is by understanding people. So, and that’s why, you know, when people approach me, I always say, look, when can we speak?
And when can we kind of have that conversation so I can understand your needs? And I do know we purchased our policies through you for the last four years. We’ve done all of that electronically. So can you explain to folks like, I was up in Pechaboon when I bought the first property in the middle of nowhere in the middle of the country.
So how does that work with clients that are? Either remote or in a different city. Yeah, so, I mean, the documents which we send out, it’s PDF documents. So, and they can be, you know, you can print them out and fill them in. You can even fill them in electronically and then send them back to me. And then we send it on to the insurer.
So they don’t require, insurers don’t require hard copies of the documents. So it kind of gets over the barrier of people being kind of all over Thailand. So I mean, I’ve got clients all the way up in Chiang Rai, all the way down to Hat Yai. So, and I mean, I’ve met quite a lot of my clients, but there’s also a lot of clients I haven’t met.
And we’ve dealt electronically and spoke on the phone, had video calls, and it’s been absolutely fine in terms of dealing with each other. And then paying for the premium, getting a little bit into the weeds here. Yeah. How does that typically happen? I know most expats here have, you know, Thai bank accounts.
So how does that work? Yeah, so yeah, there’s options. Again, it depends on insurer to insurer basis. Um, but yeah, bank transfers fine. A lot of them are now issuing secure payment links if you want to pay by card. So, I mean, I know the rest of the world has been doing this for a long time, but in Thailand it seems that the last couple of years, I think largely due to kind of regulations around PDPA and stuff like that, that they’re moving to.
It’s sending out secure payment links, which is great for everybody because it’s a secure way of paying via, you know, via card for your, for your insurance policy. So yeah, they’re the two main ones. Right. I know we paid by, I think, direct bank transfer and that was pretty easy. Yeah. I mean, some of, some insurers even have the option, I mean, Pacific Cross, for example, you can go and make a deposit at the bank, you know, if you’re more comfortable doing that, you can do that.
But yeah, predominantly it’s bank transfer and car payments. And how do you keep up with the renewals? So when do you start, or do you start, pinging people when their policy is about to run out that year? Yeah, I mean, so typically we will get the renewal sent over around a month before the renewal date.
Um, at that point I’ll have a look at it. I will normally do like a market analysis for clients. It depends on the situation. So some people, you know, if you’re, if you’re kind of in your 70s or 80s, you need to stick with, with that insurer. You don’t need, you don’t want to be hopping around, but for some people, if they, you know, if there is better value somewhere else, because you have to remember that the health insurance market is very fluid.
So premiums get updated, you know. At least annually, but every insurer has a different kind of time as to when they do their updates. So some of them it’s January, some of them it’s March, some of them it’s April. So we’re in a market where it’s constantly evolving in terms of where the best value points are.
So if I get a renewal notice through and I say, well, you know, we can get better value somewhere else. Then we will, we will present that when we send them anyone else, somebody. And you did mention before preexisting conditions. So before the Affordable Care Act in the U. S., there was no legal requirement that those are covered.
But since that time, I mean, it’s a, it’s a great feature for folks, right? So here in Thailand, are there available options for people with preexisting conditions? Yeah. So in the last year, actually, Pacific Cross, talking about Pacific Cross again, they’ve issued a plan called the Expat Care. Um, which offers a limited amount of coverage for pre existing conditions after two years.
So you have to be on policy of them for two years, and then after that two years has elapsed, then they have a limited amount of coverage for pre existing conditions. So it depends on the level of plan which you choose, but that’s either 200, per year or 300, 000 Thai Baht per year of cover for pre existing conditions, which you’ve declared at the front end of the policy.
So that’s great for people who, you know, who might have a kind of chronic condition. which they need medication for, where previously there were no options in the market to cover that. Whereas now, there is an option. So, for some people, that, that’s quite an attractive option. And then, there are some other options in terms of, in terms of plans which we call moratorium plans.
So they’re quite limited. But a moratorium plan works on the basis of, if you’ve got a pre existing condition, and it’s resolved, and you’ve gone, let’s say, it depends on, again, it depends, depends on the insurer, but if you go for a two year period of being on policy. with no follow up, no medication, no consultation with a doctor, then they may offer to cover that condition.
So, for people with conditions from a while back which have resolved, then that’s a good option. But then, apart from those two options, there’s no real option for covering pre existing. They’ll be excluded from cover. So maybe the home country’s care, right? For me, it would be Medicare with a gap policy.
Yeah. would be to fill in that gap at that point. Yeah, yeah, I mean if you’re in a situation where you have got some serious medical conditions which later down the line, you know, may flare up and you may need cover for then having that option for some people is, you know, if you needed to move back to your home country, I guess that’s an option as well.
Yeah, peace of mind at least. So if folks wanted to reach out to you, learn more, we can’t You know, we’re just touching the surface here, and there’s a lot more to learn. What’s the best way to reach you? Yeah, predominantly through my website. So www. seektoinsure. com. Okay. So there’s a contact us there, there’s, you can book an appointment with us, um, for our website.
Um, so yeah, we can, that’s the best port of call. And we’ll put a link down below so, uh, so people can reach out to you. And I do want to say that, you know, you and I have worked together for four years and you’ve been incredibly responsive. Thank you. Same day communication, and that’s been really appreciated and made this process a lot easier.
So thanks for being with us today. Thank you for having me in. It’s been really nice to have a chat and to come and see your lovely office again. Thank you. Yeah. Thank you, Mark. Great. Take care. Cheers. Cheers.
